Wednesday, September 4, 2013

Vatican Counncil II is Augustinian on exclusive salvation

There is a positive paragraph in Fr.Gleize's book.He quotes St.Augustine saying that a man cannot be saved unless he is in the Catholic Church.One cannot even be a martyr unless one is in the Catholic Church.
I was talking to an Augustinian priest a few days back at the Augustine Convent, Campo Marzio,Rome ,where Pope Francis visited recently. We agreed that Vatican Council II was in agreement with St.Augustine on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Also the Catechism of the Catholic Church was Augustianian.
In CCC 846(Outside the Church there is no salvation) we need to remember that there are no known exceptions in 2013 to the dogma on salvation and no magisterial texts mention any exceptions
 
Cantate Domino,Council of Florence 1441 says  a person cannot be saved even if he sheds his blood for Christ, unless he is in the Catholic Church.-Lionel Andrades
 
1.
p.152, Vaticano II Un Dibattito Aperto, Editrice Ichthys,2013
Sant Agostino,Sermon ad Caesariensis ecclesiae plebem,VaticanoII un dibattito aperto

YOUCAT interpretations

Faithful Answers and Robert Sungenis insinuate that the Church Fathers and the Bible have made an error.They are objecting to YOUCAT, the Catechism for the youth, insinuate that the Holy Bible contains errors.(1)
youcat












Over centuries the Catholic Church taught that all need the baptism of water for salvation and there are no known exceptions but Faithful Answers and Robert Sunjenis claim there are known exceptions to this teaching. They state that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are known exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation.So they reject the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
This is a new doctrine accepted by Faithful Answers. So it is a new way of interpreting the Bible.
We are wrongly being given a new ecclesiology. So should we not be surprised when it is insinuated that the Holy Bible contains errors.The Bible interpretation will also have to be different from past centuries.If ecclesiology has changed then the interpretation of the Bible could also have changed.
YOUCAT and Faithful Answers could be saying that not every one in 2013 needs the baptism of water and Catholic Faith(AG 7) and so Jesus was wrong in saying that it was needed for all. Jesus also understood that there were known exceptions ?!!
-Lionel Andrades
(1)
Objection #1: YOUCAT insinuates that The Holy Bible contains errors.
 
 

Gleize makes another mistake

Fr.J.M Gleize who assumed that Pope PIus XII mentioned a defacto, known 'extraordinary means of salvation' outside the visible limits of the Catholic church, also wrongly considers being saved in 2013 with 'elements of sanctification'(LG 8) as referring to cases personally known to us.
 VaticanoII un dibattito aperto
This is the second error of the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) professor of Ecclesiology, in his book Vaticano II -Dibatitto aperto. I have not read the book in detail but skimmed through it. Possibly there are other factual errors, claims of being able to see people on earth who are now saved in Heaven. They considers these cases a break with traditional ecclesiology. So they reject Vatican Council II when the fault is there with the false premise of being able to see or meet the dead-saved. SSPX books with this 'dead man walking theory' are being approved by the Italian District Superior  Fr. Pierpaolo Petrucci.Don Pierpaolo
 
The ordinary means of salvation is the Catholic Church (Redemptoris Missio 55). It is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water(Ad Gentes 7).This is the only means of salvation available for sure in 2013.One can choose to be baptized with water, one cannot choose to be saved with the baptism of desire or being in invincible ignorance.One cannot choose to be a martyr by killing oneself(suicide) some one else has to create the martyr(baptism of blood). So there is only one ordinary means of salvation 'faith and baptism'. There is no extraordinary means of salvation.
If someone is saved with 'elements of sanctification and grace'(LG 8) it is only a possibility, known only to God and unknown to us.So it is not a known exception to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church, the 'ecclesiocentric ' ecclesiology.
New Ecclesiology
Yesterday evening, at the photo stat shop, I was talking to a young man, probably a priest. He said he believed in all the teachings of the Catholic Church, all the dogmas.'Also extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?', I asked.He said that the Church does not teach it any more as in the past.There is a new ecclesiology.
A new ecclesiology!
Seminaristi
The new ecclesiology is based on the same error made by Fr.Gleize. Vatican Council II is considered to be a break with the past since those saved with 'elements of sanctification',(LG 8), seeds of the Word(AG 11), a good conscience(LG 16), invincible ignorance (LG 16) etc are considered to be defacto, known exceptions in 2013, to all needing to convert into the Church and be visible members. This error is there in public in two theological papers of the International Theological Commission(ITC) (Christianity and the World Religions and The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without being baptized').The SSPX has never corrected or commented on this error on the  ITC website.Fr.J.M Gleize  and the SSPX theologians are sure to have overlooked it in the Vatican-SSPX talks and if there counterparts were aware of it, they did not mention it.-Lionel Andrades

Fr.Jean Marie Gleize makes a doctrinal error in a book published by the SSPX


SSPX priest tries to defend Fr.Gleize
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/09/sspx-priest-tries-to-defend-frgleize.html#links
 
 http://www.sanpiox.it/public/